Dog question

[Jim]

My dog has bone cancer and I am thinking of take the leg off and giving her chemo to fight the spread. I know about the cost. I know about the pain.

My question is this the right thing to do for the dog or should I lets her go with God.

[Mike Davis]

Mets = metastasis or spread of the cancer to other parts of the body. Bone cancer is very prone to spread, and good quality X-rays of the lungs (where bone cancer is most likely to spread) are absolutely necessary before amputation. Assuming there is no evidence, I personally would not hesitate. There are lots of cases in which the dogs cruise around happy as, well, dogs for years on 3 legs. One of my colleagues has a black Lab that has been "dead" for over 5 years (i.e., given 6 months to live nearly 6 years ago). Spanky is pretty happy.
There are numerous ongoing clinical trials of different therapeutics going on, due in large part to the fact that dog cancer is VERY similar to human cancer, and the NIH National Cancer Institute has a robust program of research using clinical cases of dog cancer to help develop better human treatments. Contact the American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine (www.acvim.org), which is the umbrella organization that contains veterinary cancer specialists. They can point you to the nearest appropriate center conducting the trials.
Good luck.

[Jim]

you know your poop....

Thanks very much, the lung look good, blood work is good.

This is so hard because she is my only kid.

[MoonSailer]

My last dog developed throat cancer when she was about 10 years old. A lab/chow mix with a great personality. I searched the internet and it seems that she was expected to live about a year with ot without treatment. We did nothing until she stopped eating and then took her to th evet to be euthanized. It was very sad. But she got weaker and weaker but did not seem to be in pain. I treated her as I would like to have been treated. If the outlook for a cure would have been better we would have had her treated. If she had seemed to be in pain we would have euthanized her sooner. Her last days she just kind of lay around. On her last walk with us she could not cross logs or rocks on her own so I carried her as needed. She seemed to really enjoy the walk even in her weakened state. She was with her family her pack and everyone was very loving to her. She died about a month later. I do not see any reason to put any creature through needless suffering. Bone cancer is said to be very painfull.

[Mike Davis]

whether it is human or animal. Needless as in "we're doing stuff without a reasonable expectation of a positive outcome". In your case, throat cancer is pretty resistant to treatment, or more correctly, there is little published evidence of successful approaches. Faced with that, I would do as you did. In the case of localized bone cancer, amputation is considered about 90% curative (the other 10% being metastasis that was too early to detect), and the dogs are amazingly adaptable. Losing a hind leg is slightly better than a foreleg since less weight is carried on the hind end, but either is very common. There is some work being done on constructing prosthetics as well, merging the veterinary field with DoD's massive program of prosthetic research. In order to construct a dog prosthetic, the human prosthetic scientists are forced to reexamine their conventional thinking, and in doing so, have made some interesting advances in human prosthetic design. Intellectually, it is also a morale-booster to watch a dog wearing your prosthetic chase a ball down a hallway.

[Ross in Tampa]

Been there done that. My thoughts are with you either way, not an easy decision.

Yes, I have known many 3 legged dogs, the get around very well for the most part. The previous advise is good advise, if the cancer has spread, the amputation will have been for nothing.

Quality of life is what's it's about. I truly understand what you're going through.

[Dennis]

Even treatment is no promise of success..... We spent 600 plus dollars in an attempt to save our lab, and she only got to come home after for a short time.... The ultimate decision has to be yours, but there is some satisfaction in knowing you did all you could.......... It is a hard one to deal with..................

[biorapper]

That would play a part in my decision process. I have a lab. She's 17 and having a tough time of it now. Having to pick up her poop from various uncontrolled deposits (amazing what we will do for dogs...very few, if any, humans who's poop I would pick up!) She got hit by a car when about 5. Spent over 2,000 to save her. BEST money I have EVER spent.

[Jim]

and the nicest Rottie you would very want to meet. She has a big happy smile. I don't want her to hate me from taking off her leg.

[biorapper]

bet she would still hop right on over to ya with a big smile. [Obviously] A Very hard decision though. Mike seems to have some good info to help. Sorry for your situation...

[Mike Davis]

Not so much anymore. If, with the exception of the tumor, she's healthy, then life expectancy is still measured in years, and recovery from the surgery is measured in weeks.
Of course, you know that you can bounce things off of this group anytime.

[MoonSailer]

Panzy was hit by a car when she was about a year old. We took her to a vet . Nothing broken but the vet doubt that she would survive due to internal injuries and he offered to put her to sleep. Then I decided to give her a chance. I took her home and kept her warm. For the first week I felt awful as she was obviously in great pain and could hardly move. A couple of times I almost took her in to be put to sleep. But gradually every day she got better. After about a month she acted as if she had never been hit by a car!!!! It was so hard watching her in such pain. We gave her aspirin which helped a lot. In retrospect maybe I could have done more for her pain. But we were having financial troubles at the time and I honestly did not have hundreds of dollars to spend on a dog. With 4 kids needing lots of stuff money was very tight. Anyway it ended well with her complete recovery and she lived several more years. I still miss her as she was an exceptionally good dog. She loved to catch and eat rabbits!!!! She also caught squirrels but would not eat them. She was very friendly to people that visited but was a good watchdog that knew when people were around that were not supposed to be there. She also caught a few ground hogs. She was so fast that a ground hog caught out away from it's hole did not have a chance. But she left our cat alone. At first she wanted to kill the cat. But once I told her no a couple of times she completely ignored the cat.

[Jim]

I am blessed that we can barely afford it. She is my best friend I just hope she understands and doesn’t resent me for it.

Thank you all for the support. As I said many times, we are all sailors and friends.

[troy]

labs can hold a grudge. My female lab gave me the angry eyes (and then lick her stiches) for a few weeks after I had her fixed. If I had a 'do over' I would have a friend take her.

A friends choc lab lost the use of her back legs. He considered putting her down but opted to battle it out. She had a couple accidents in the house at first. It took her some time to train Paul (owner) to come on command. Paul would lift her hind legs up and walk with her outside for her to relieve herself. She loved all the attention and would occasionally call Paul over just for the hell of it. LOL! Paul had no choice but to go through the potty routine as he didn't want a mess in the house... funny girl.

She lived for 6 mos... Paul had no regrets.

[Alan]

We had a very sick 15 year old pug. She was dying of congestive heart failure and her suffering was tearing our hearts out.
Fortunately I have a friend who is a caring vet. She gave me two needles, one with a sedative and one with an fatal overdose. I gave our dog these injections in our home with a minimum of stress and discomfort to her. She went out in our arms and although we miss her greatly, I know we did the right thing for her.
My best to you.

[Mike Davis]

when he was just 6 month old, my Golden Retriever started acting a bit droopy. I took him to the vet school here and, after a few days of diagnostics, discovered that he had a systemic fungal infection, with organisms found in every organ system except the brain. They gave me the bad news, expecting me to take him home for a few days to say goodbye. I insisted on trying to treat him instead. Four months and a couple of close calls later (to the tune of just over $1000/month, so much for that year's vacation), he was cured. The shock to his system left him with a goofy haircoat, but 7 years later, he is still going strong. He seems to know that hunting season is coming, too. Our games of "fetch" outside have started to convert to "retrieve", in which he insists on sitting next to me at attention when I throw the dummy, and waits for me to say "bang" before running after it.

In my more melancholy moments, I find myself hoping that he will go quietly in his sleep. I'm certain that I couldn't do what Alan did.

[Mike Davis]

And how are you doing, too?

[Bob V]

I have given a lot of shots to dogs (and other animals) but never to put one down. It must have been less traumatic for the dog that way.

The vets office is not usually considered a happy place by dogs and there is a bit of anxiety with any visit. In one case my vet came to my back yard and did the job while my dog was in his comfortable place. There was no pain and it was done with compassion and skill. Sedative first and then the lethal dose.

In the past I have usually erred on the side of keeping them around too long for their own good and probably will continue to do so in the future because it is so hard to let go. Dogs can be good at hiding their pain and we who love them can be blind to things we'd rather not see.

Jim, only you can make that decision and as long as you have only the dogs best interest in mind whatever you decide is what is right.

[Jim]

She just had the operation on Monday and she just came home. God bless you all for the kind words. I am glad to call everyone that replied a good friend.

I am not a fan of the new wed site. It is slow...:snooty:

[Bob Poff]

I wish you and Tasha well.

Several years ago one one of our cats was found to have a large tumor.
We had it removed. Biopsy showed it to be cancer. We gave her interferon daily. About a year later another tumor and surgery.
When the third tumor appeared we could tell from her actions that she was saying "I've had enough".

Having met later in life, we have no children. But we've always had pets. Currently have twelve cats.
So we've been through this time and again with various problems over the years.
Finding the "right time" sometimes isn't difficult. Convincing yourself of it though is exceedingly hard.
It always comes down to trying to discern what's best for them.

Tasha will show you when she's had enough. Meanwhile, enjoy your time with her.

And remember, while there's life, there's hope.

[Tom]

...Still cry sometimes (like now) but when the pain started to get to the point where
He had more bad times then good I had him put down. I'm hurting but He isn't, it was the best for him. Talk to your vet about you holding him or petting him and it will be easier for him too (the dog) Wow, it's one of those times I'm glad I work alone. (there is never a crying icon when you really need one.) I can't tell you how really sorry I am best of luck.
Tom
s/v GAIA

[Ctskip]

When I was 12 my Dad bought me a Beagle pup, I was getting into hunting and he thought this would be a good lesson in responsibility for me. Anyway, my Mom asked me to clean the sports paraphernalia off the porch. So I grabbed two basketballs in my arms and headed outside to put them in the garage near the backboard. I was walking down the steps, basketballs in my arms, not looking and I stepped on the little puppies head who was lying at the bottom of the stairs. I dropped the balls and screamed . My Dad came running and my Mom brought me a towel. I picked the puppy up in my arms and got into the front seat of Dads car and we drove like crazy to the vets office. No luck. The puppy died in my arms. I cried for years over the loss of my first pet that I had for about two months. It still hurts today and I think about it every time I see a dog lying on or near a set of stairs. or a kid carrying basketballs.

Being animal lovers (I got the license plates to prove it), My wife and I had two dogs and two cats. One cat went missing, gone for four days. It was a Russian Blue. Far and few between. Anyway, I discovered a cat lying next to the curb of the street near the park, two blocks away. I tell the wife. We go down and make a positive ID. I go back and pick up our three yr old Phoenix (ash color) and bring her home. Bury her in the backyard complete with marker. Three nights later we are coming home late after a nite of partying. The wife goes and lets herself in and I do the guy thing on a tree. I go up the steps and open the door and enter. In scurries a shadow about the size of a cat. I for a moment thought it was Phoenix, but I knew better. I asked my wife if she saw, what I think I saw. She said yes, but wasn't really sure. We looked at each other quietly for a second and heard a crunch ,crunch coming from the hallway where the cat food is kept in a bowl on the floor. We look around the corner and there was Phoenix eating. We picked her up and laughed in amazement and jumped for joy. I looked for dirt that should of been in her eyes, because thats the last thing I remember seeing as I shoveled dirt on her stiff body. She slept with us that night. The next morning I just had to go out to where we had buried her . I expected to see a hole and the dirt piled to one side. Nope, It was just as I had left it.
We babied Phoenix for three days and nights. Wondering, who's cat did we bury in our back yard? We were over joyed to have our Phoenix back home. I figured we had named her appropriately, Phoenix, rising from the ashes and all. Only this time it was rising from the dirt. Anyway we had let Phoenix out for the first time in three days . She wandered over to the driveway in front of the garage near the hedges and looked back over her shoulder towards the wife and me, as if to say , thanks for all you've done. walked around the garage, under the hedges. And we never saw her again. True story.

I feel your pain

Keep it up,
Ctskip

[Bob V]

How is Tasha doing?

[Jim]

It took her 5 days to get back on her feet after the first como treatment. She can now walk about 4 blocks on three legs. Her ears are starting to show she is happy again.

Only 4 or 5 more como treatments to go. I wish we would find a cure soon. The suffering from people and pets hard to take.

[Bob V]

It sounds like you made it through the hardest part. Obviously you made the right decision.

[Jim]

I hope so Bob. She old and has good days and bad days.

[Scott T-Bird]

When we decided to get a dog, we thought about rescuing a dog from being put down. Internet sites are loaded with dogs that are in foster homes as a temporary respite from being killed. We found Shelby simply by responding after searching for dogs that matched a description of what we would like to have. She is a Gordon setter / border collie mix.

I've never known a dog with such a happy personality or a more gentle and playful demeanor with small kids. And she can run like the wind! It's a good thing we have a large fenced in yard so she can sprint from one end to the other when she sees deer on the other side! Just last week we had some excitement when a black bear showed up near the fence, so we had to scramble to get her inside.

There are thousands of great dogs that need homes and I would encourage anyone to take a chance on an unfortunate animal that needs to be rescued.

Shelby lives each day like it's the happiest day of her life. We could all learn a lesson from that!

[elle]

I've been following this thread hoping to hear that Tasha is on the mend. Good to hear that this is the case.

My yellow lab was a 'dumpster dog." There was construction on campus where my youngest was enrolled and one day she heard crying from a construction dumpster.

She thought it was a baby so sent her BF into the dumpster to rescue it.

Turns out that it was a baby lab....my now goofy gal Timi.....since I ended up with the dog a year later after my husband passed away, even tho' she is an inconvenience at times, I am heartily grateful that it was a dog and not a baby....;^0

[Jim]

This was taken shortly after the surgery. The little Hot Dog is her friend Augie Dogy.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/picture.php?albumid=209&pictureid=1626

[Mike Davis]

You might be interested in these links:
http://www.acvimfoundation.org/awareness/chaseawayk9cancer.html

and
http://www.dockdogs.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1377&Itemid=269

The second link takes you to a page that is linked to a video tribute to the dog in whose memory the above program was founded. Hang in there through the video - it is a big download, and will have you bawling like a baby about half-way through. Then it puts a smile on your face.

[Ctskip]

I wonder if dogs know how much we love them?
My wife Audrey wanted a dog, for years she kept asking for a dog. I told her I had had dogs before and I know how much they can change ones life. I didn't want the shedding and dog crap in the yard, I just stay firm. She kept it up, Finally,one day, she must of talked to someone, she came up to me and asked for a dog, I said no ,again. Then Audrey says, I ether get a dog or a baby. I asked her what kind of dog she wanted.

She researched dogs and found a small breed that doesn't shed. We got a Maltese. Brought him home and within 6 months we found a rescued Maltese and brought her home. Now we have two. Let me tell you I can't believe how much joy and love they bring to the family, it's unbelievable. I talk to them and they understand. What a joy to have in my life. I think they know it too. They love back, unconditionally.

I also found out something I didn't know about food. Garbage food (fillers) one finds in the big box stores is crap. Feed you dog say,10 lbs a week and you'll pick up 8lbs a week in crap. Feed them good quality food say 10lbs and you pick up 2 lbs of crap. Big difference. They digest and use 80% of the good food verses 20% of the garbage food.

Glad to here your Tasha is doing well. It'll take time.
Sometimes I think we feel the pain more than they do.
Keep it up,
Ctskip

[Jim]

The cancer moved into her lung much after then we expected. She has very little lung tissue left. We are taking her today to meet our other dogs that have passed away.

I wanted to thank everyone that wished her well. She loved haning out at the marina. She was a good sailor too!

[Rob Hessenius]

Jim~
My best wishes for you and your family.

[Mike Davis]

My condolences Jim.

[Ctskip]

Hang in there buddy. My thoughts are with you.

[Bob Poff]

So sorry to hear this Jim. It's never easy. And never will become easy.
You've done so much for her. Some extra time to say goodbye.

Every time we've been through one of these situations I've wished that I could converse with them in my language. If nothing but to tell them how much they're loved. But in their language these little creatures always manage to tell us that they already know.

[Jim]

we'll meet in the end...

Click below to see man's best crew.

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/picture.php?albumid=183&pictureid=2363

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/picture.php?albumid=183&pictureid=2365

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/picture.php?albumid=183&pictureid=2364

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/picture.php?albumid=183&pictureid=2362

[John]

One of our dogs broke both forelegs as a puppy. Treatment was going to be very expensive, and I think the vet expected us to say to euthanize her. We had the money in the bank at the time and we both decided without hesitation to spend it on her. I never had second thoughts. I know that if I'd had her euthanized, I'd be feeling guilty to this day.
I think it's all a matter of how you feel about it. In a year from now, would you feel good or bad about whatever decision you make?

[Mike Davis]

Well, I guess we'll see if I have better luck. Jake (my Golden Retriever) was diagnosed with cancer today - a mass just behind his jaw. Delicate area to do surgery - lots of important structures there. He's heading to Texas A&M tomorrow for debulking and radiation therapy. Keeping my fingers crossed.