To re-power or not to re-power

[Sean]

Are you looking at L&M marine for the repower? I've seen the Shiney Yanmar in there and am thinking about the same thing for my Cat30. It looks like it would be an easy conversion. Sean

[Jeff Kroeller]

My 82 Catalina 30 has the Universal 5411 (11hp).Not sure of the time since hobbs was inop when I bought boat but she runs great.Would like to re-power with a new 18hp Yanmar.She currently cruises at around 5kts. Add a little head wind and current and you are quickly down to 3.5 - 4 kts. Miserable speed if you are trying to cover any distance or out run some weather. Remember..I live in Washington. Wind and current are everday and they are usually against you. Anyone have any experience on what I will gain in cruising speed by going from 11 to 18 horse power??

[RDS]

Alot of the older 30s in my area (NC) have repowered with the Universal 18-20hp? They all seen very happy. With the old engines they couldn't get any speed into a strong headwind.

[Don]

Seems like a Universal would be pretty much a direct bolt in operation. Also, the 18hp Yanmar is a 2 cylinder. The M3-20 Universal is a 3 cylinder, smooth running 20hp. Either way, 18hp and above will be plenty of power for a c30.

[Rodd C.]

I replaced a single cylinder Yanmar with a M320B three cyl Universal/Kubota engine very smooth and very quiet (in my old C-30). The Universal M320B will fit better height wise under the counter. I measured for a Yanni and found it would not fit. Catalina recommended I install the Universal. Now that I've owned three different boats with three different Universals I will never go back to a Yanmar. Kubota blocks are bulletproof engines and the parts tend to cost less than Yanmar.

[Jeff Kroeller]

Rodd,What kind of speed did you get after the re-power. Will my C30 cruise at 6kts or better with a slight current and head wind?

[Jeff Kroeller]

Sean,I was looking at the 2G20F???I think that is the model. The dealer swears by Yanmar but the response has been for the Universal. Maybe because it is basically a drop in.

[Sean]

Yup, it looks like well have to check out the Universal. We may have to go to Seattle for the repower though. I'll also have to check out the total cost. Sean S/V Carnaby Street

[Allen Schweitzer]

Jeff,I put the 2GM20F in my 1977 Catalina and I really love it. It's quiet & offers great power. At 3K rpm I cruise at 5.6 knots. It wasn't cheap, but I don't mind paying for the peace of mind + I'll get a lot of it back when it comes time to sell.If you're seriously considering a repower, then there are some things you should keep in mind as you start to price it out:1. There are no true drop-in replacements for your motor that I'm aware of. Some modifications will be necessary. The important measurement here is the height ABOVE THE DRIVE SHAFT, not the overall height. I goofed on that measurement & my engine sits 2" above where the settee used to be. I did some modifications to allow for the extra height, but it was a lot more work than I originally expected.2. Ancillary system upgrades/modifications. Here's the short list of things you'll probably want to build into your budget: Prop, prop shaft, muffler, control cables (sounds small, but it can mean a LOT of hours if you have to rip open your steering pedestal), engine bed.Overall, I'm extremely pleased with the Yanmar. The number 1 reason I went with the 2GM20F is it's warranty. Where other engines give you 2 or 3 years, Yanmar gives you a full 5. To me that speaks volumes. She's quiet, efficient (1/2 gallon per hour at cruising) and extremely reliable. NO smoke (easy to keep transom clean) and I shaved 100 or so pounds off the weight of my boat. My only complaint is that I wish it sat lower in the engine compartment.Good luck with the repower. In 2 years I got a new motor for my boat, updated rigging & a new genny. She runs & feels like a new boat. I'm a big fan of upgrading older C-30's because they're great boats that will continue to hold their value & offer great sailing for years to come.Whatever motor you choose, I'm sure you'll be happy with the investment. Getting 70% more power can't hurt, either!Allen Schweitzers/v DrambuieC-30 Hull# 632p.s. - If you do decide to go with the 2GM20F and decide to get a new prop, I'd recommend the CDI composite prop that is specifically designed for the 2GM20F. Check it out on the "Related Link"

[Sean]

Are you saying the Yanmar will not fit without altering the setee, or you had to alter it because of an inaccurate measurement? I really don't want too change the setee. Thanks, Sean

[Allen Schweitzer]

Sean,I replaced my Atomic 4 with the Yanmar. I have a 1977 model & I know that ANY diesel on my boat will require you to raise the settee at least 1 1/2". Your boat must have different engine compartment dimensions because, obviously, you already have a diesel in there & your settee is at the normal height. Your best bet is to check out the dimensions of your current motor & compare them with the Yanmar. Check the related link for dimensions of the 2GM20F. Including the mixing elbow, I'm showing that the Yanmar requires at least 18.38" above the prop shaft.Check out the schematic on the related link.I can't find specs on your current motor, but maybe you have them. I'd be interested to find out how it compares.Good luck!Allen

[Jeff]

Thank you very much Allen for your information. I am quit certain I will do it. I love the boat and I do not want a boat payment. The wife wants a newer 310. I do to but necessity sometimes dictates. I was a little surprised to hear you cruise at 5.6 at 3K. On a reasonably calm day, I cruise at around 5.6 with my 11hp.Perhaps you could elaborate a little more on the performance improvement you saw. Thanks again!!

[Allen Schweitzer]

Jeff,I bought the boat with a bad A-4 that had sea water in the cylinders. I never used any other motor but the Yanmar, so I really can't offer any comparisons. However....I hear that C-30's with the 5411 lose a lot of forward momentum in a chop or into the wind. My boat is definitely less susceptible to that.At the end of the day, I think the 5411 probably is an adequate motor for most conditions, but it probably lacks the torque of a larger motor, and thus has trouble pushing the boat in rougher conditions. The Yanmar will probably have a comparable cruising speed, but it will definitely maintain it better against wind & waves, and it probably has a higher "top speed" if you want to run it at full throttle for a short period of time.I wish I had the name of the article or the source, but I recently read about the physics of pushing a displacement hull through the water & you would be amazed at how much additional power you need to take that boat from 5.5 to 6.5 knots SOW. According to what I read the amount of extra power needed increases exponentially as the boat goes faster.I'm not doing a very good job of explaining this, but you probably need 11 horsepower to get the boat to go 5.5 knots in calm water, but you'll need another 7 horsepower to increase the speed another knot to get to 6.5.At maximum throttle in calm water with a clean prop & bottom I can get to 6.5 knots with the 2GM20F. I do this for about 5 minutes if I've been at low throttle for any length of time just to keep the motor clean, but it's not recommended that you do that continuously.Overall, I think you'll find the torque of a larger motor to be the biggest difference. You may not see the benefit in cruising speed across flat water, but you will see it in rough waters, during docking, and while backing up.I hope this helps, Jeff. Let me know if you need any more detail. I'm really glad I did the upgrade and I hope you are, too. Just don't expect to get to hull speed at crusing rpms. You'll need the 3GM30 to do that.--Allen

[Todd Osborne (Windwalker)]

I have the 5411 as well & she darn near stops when heading into a gail with chop. The cheap fix is to go to a 3 blade prop. It'll gain you about 1/2 knot in good conditions & make a huge difference in a headway. But you'll loose 1/4 to 1/2 kt sailing. Now for a new engine, I'd get the Universal. for three main reasons. 1) fits into existing settee 2) can use same motor mounts (big $ if you have to rebed monts!) 3) fits existing hurth tranny (really big $ to buy new one, unless your motor comes with). I was quoted $10 to $12K by a reputable yard in Seattle, but you could do better, as these guys charge top $.

[Jeff]

Thanks for the response Todd. I have a three blade on now and she does OK. But like you say, add some chop and headwind and you nearly stop. Are you referring to the Universal M3-20B 20hp?I think that is the engine I will go with but I have been told that it does't exactly drop in. Have you heard otherwies?Thx

[Rodd C.]

It is not true that you will need to raise your settee height with any diesel. I too owned a 1977 C-30 and did a retro fit with a M3-20B Universal. It just barely fit but it did fit with no modifications to the Settee!!! Yanni's don't fit fit as well in a C-30 as a Universal...To tall...-Rodd C.

[Rodd C.]

I used a Michigan 3 blade sailor prop and could cruise with no problems at 6.5 with enough reserve to get me out of a sticky situation... -Rodd C.

[Jeff]

Glad to hear it!!What kind of RPM are you turning to get 6.5 cruise?

[Rodd C.]

But I know I could spin the prop at max RPM If I needed to.

[Jeff]

Rodd,Do you remember if you had to increase the size of your raw water thru hull, fuel system and exhaust system?Anything from your installation experience I should be weary of? I don't take it for granted that every "professional" installer knows what they are doing. Cooling, fuel, exhaust, electrical and alignment all need to be carefully examined. There is a great article on this in this months Cruising World.Thank you for any advise

[Rodd C.]

I did all hoses, exhaust hose, prop shaft, coupling, propeller, exhaust box, through hulls, racor primary fuel filter and guage panel. Total cost around 10500.00 installed. -Rodd C.

[Todd Osborne (Windwalker)]

here's the specsThe Universal M3-20B, 20 hp, 3 cylinder engine with the standard reduction gear of 2.05:1 costs $5873.00 - good thru March of 2003View the M3-20B specifications at http://www.marinedieseldirect.com/unispecsheets/m320b.pdf (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader)-Standard engine features include- Self-Bleeding Fuel System Adjustable Failsafe Flexible Mounts Fresh Water Cooling w/ Heat Exchanger Coolant Recovery Tank 12 Volt Electric Fuel Transfer Pump Electric System 12 Volt Electric System, Negative Ground Glowplug Cold Starting Aid Control Brackets - Throttle/Stop and Shift Low Oil Pressure Alarm High Water Temperature Alarm Pre-Wired Engine Lube Oil Drain Hose Air Intake Silencer Owner's Manual and Parts ListThe "Admiral" panel, with tachometer, hour meter, oil pressure gauge, water temp gauge, engine pre-heat and key switch is $387.00

[Jeff]

Thank you all for your input and advise.I can't wait to do this. I hope that at some point I can be of assistance to you.Jeff

[Jeff]

I spoke today with a rep from Universal. The footprint for the M3-20B is different from the 5411 and will require a little modification. The raw water line for the M3-20B needs 5/8 of an inch ID and the exhaust needs 2 in ID. That is what I currently have for the 5411 so should be fine. Just wanted to pass along.Jeff